Three Horrible Ways to Manage Up

Ever wondered how to excel in your work relationships with key stakeholders and superiors? We're revealing the secret: it's all about the art of managing up. Today we delve into this critical leadership skill, explaining the concept and providing crucial tips and situations you should avoid. We unpack the importance of maintaining professionalism even in a world where work chats often become casual.

We provide a fresh perspective on creating a stakeholder map to identify who matters most and the effort necessary for each relationship. Whether you're an executive looking to improve your leadership skills or someone curious to learn new management strategies, this episode has something for you. Ready to revolutionize your work relationships? Tune in now!

In this episode you'll learn the following:
1. The significance of distinguishing between work-related relationships and casual friendships.
2. The importance of thoughtful communication that adds value, rather than irrelevant or excessive information.
3. Why you should avoid over-involving bosses by inviting them to every meeting and including them in every discussion.

This episode is sponsored by LucidPoint
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CONNECT WITH SUSIE:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susietomenchok/

CONNECT WITH JAMES:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/capps/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Suzy Tomenschuk.

Speaker 2: 0:24

I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Hey, welcome to Quick Take. I am Suzy Tomenschuk, along with my favorite co-host, james Capps. How are you, james? I'm fantastic. How are you today? I mean that you may be my only co-host, but I do mean it.

Speaker 2: 0:47

You know what, as long as I'm on the list, I feel pretty good about it.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Okay, that's good, that's good. So one topic that I thought we should at some point do is managing up. Yeah, it's always, it's always, and I get this a lot and I will teach on it. I will help people understand, but people always circle back about what does it? Really mean how do I do this? So I think it's a good topic and I think we should take a spin on it.

Speaker 2: 1:13

Oh, how's that?

Speaker 1: 1:14

Well, maybe we don't give them three tips. Maybe we talk about the things you shouldn't do, like the disasters, oh gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Yeah, Now, I think there's a long list of those, but maybe more importantly, things that people think are managing up, the things that I'm managing up well, because I'm doing these three things. Let's talk about the things that are not really managing up and can undermine your credibility with your leadership.

Speaker 1: 1:40

That sounds good. That sounds good when we talk about managing up. Why don't you give us what do you think about when you're managing up? Is it like this? Is it like? What does it mean?

Speaker 2: 1:52

I think, that's important, I think, when we talk about this as you get more senior and a lot of our listeners know that ultimately you don't work for one person. So, while simply on an org chart, managing up is the person that you have aligned between your names. There's really this set of stakeholders that you manage to, whether it's the board, whether it's investors, whether it's a number of things. So I always like to think of it as a why. It's not an an I, it's a why. There's this whole length of people that are at various levels along the way that are key to that, and so if you think there's a why there, then that's how I like to think about it.

Speaker 1: 2:27

Yeah, I love that. I think there's a song there, I don't know, but there's like some kind of letter song.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Start with a why something.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Why.

Speaker 2: 2:35

That's a future answer.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I'm not doing that, you know the thing I like about this topic is I also think that it's something that each executive should revisit from time to time and be thoughtful about. Am I doing it well as an? I? Am I doing it well, and who else should I be managing up to, and be thoughtful about that?

Speaker 2: 2:57

Yeah, I really encourage people to have a stakeholder map that basically identifies their stakeholders, identifies the type of relationships that they should have. You know, I've had worked with a lot of folks to build their map and everybody does it differently. You know, I simply like a spreadsheet that has a name, has their role, has why they are one of my stakeholders, and then I really kind of talk about how you know, on a scale of one to three, what type of relationship do I need there? And it just ensures that when I'm thinking about managing to that managing up there that I'm thoughtfully understanding what it takes, because I think there's so many ways that you can manage up and a lot of this takes energy, and so you have to be, you should be somewhat thoughtful in doing this. Even if people like you super outgoing and love to be chatting with people, you still should give some thought to who you want to work with and who you want to put the time into.

Speaker 1: 3:53

I love it. I love it and I love the spin on this, because you've probably learned the things. You probably are taking this from your own experience, I would think.

Speaker 2: 4:01

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 4:02

I see it a lot, and I think one of the first ones that I want to talk about is the difference between the relationship you have with that person and the friendship that you have with that person.

Speaker 2: 4:14

And so oftentimes I see people who you'll talk about talk with a leader who says I've got a great relationship with my boss or with the board, and then you tease at it a little bit and you understand that all they really talk about is fishing, or all they're really talking about is what's on television or movies. That's a friendship, and while that's important and you can have a casual conversation, you have to be thoughtful about the type of communication you have. Just chatting about what's for lunch is not showcasing your skills. It's not allowing you the opportunity to communicate. And so think that take a moment and say all right, what types of dialogue am I having? What types of conversation am I having? And if it's really just about the weather, it's really just about what the score was last night, et cetera, then perhaps you're not managing up. You just have this somewhat thinly veiled friendship.

Speaker 1: 5:13

Oh, that's so good, but what if you have a boss that likes to fill space like that? What are some of the things that you would do to switch it?

Speaker 2: 5:23

No, I think you do have to be thoughtful and kind of intertwine those topics, and I find that when that happens I like to. There's a great parallel that I like to use with my kids and their grandparents, and so often when my but their grandparents come and talk to them, they talk to them about the same stuff all the time. If you watch your grandparents talk to your kids, they're talking to them as if they were seven. They have such a small number of things in common because they really have no frame. So your boss may be talking to you about football, may be talking to you about shoes, may be talking about football shoes, but because they don't know what else to talk about.

Speaker 2: 6:09

So, it's your responsibility to create a dialogue.

Speaker 2: 6:11

This is just another form of networking and communicating and you really want to ensure that when they, when you have a conversation with them, that they have something to latch onto you, they remember you for something and that there is there's meat there. Less of a problem when it's somebody that you interact with on a daily basis, perhaps, but certainly other stakeholders, board members, investors you've got to work that really hard and understand that just talking about current events is not creating the dialogue and the interaction that you really want.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Yeah, I like what you said too about just thinking back about what is the topic of conversation and some of the things that you do, and I have to check myself because I do like to be liked, but it's not all about those things. That can be just a comfortable place. So really thinking about not making it more meaningful. That was good, all right. What's your second one?

Speaker 2: 7:03

The second one I think that some folks, lou, is just use email in a really lazy way by CCing and FYIing their boss or leadership on everything. And so you do have that conversation which says keep me in the loop, keep me up to speed, and then so how do you manage up? You give them everything and suddenly you become a conduit, just a pass through, and that's not managing, that is just overwhelming and providing very little value to your boss and that's just going to cause problems later down the line. And so just because you're copying them on everything doesn't mean you're managing them.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Yeah, I'm in a unique situation where I talk to teams and then I talk to their boss separately and I often hear the team going Susie, does that mean we should just copy them on everything?

Speaker 1: 7:53

And I'm like no, and the boss is like, oh, why do they keep doing this? And so sometimes the communication doesn't come back. But it's like I need to keep them in the loop. It doesn't mean just like floating their name on everything, everything, oh, it's like I love that one. I think that that is so misunderstood because you don't get immediate feedback on it. I don't think, or any feedback on it. You're just you think you're doing a good job and you're causing more friction than you even realize in a relationship 100%, and you know it goes to just the value you bring to the table, right?

Speaker 2: 8:31

If you're simply just forwarding on information without some sort of context or action, then what? Why are you here? Totally, that person below you or that group that sent the email should have just involved them from the beginning. And so you know, keeping somebody in the loop is a huge opportunity to ensure that you have created the rapport and you're managing up. But keeping them in the loop is it's an art and you have to be thoughtful, and you know forwarding everything onto them is not keeping them in the loop, right, that is not managing up.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Yeah, just to put like, and a point on that too is just saying forwarding it with an FYI is not helpful.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I get that a lot. I laugh when I talk to folks who will just bring up a topic as if I've been in that conversation for six weeks and they'll say well, you know that. You know that server's upgraded Like I don't know what server you're talking about. I need context, and so that FYI needs some sort of data that goes along with it.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Oh, and the worst thing, on that too, is when you're in the meeting and your boss doesn't know, like you said, and they go. Well, I sent you the email oh my gosh, do not say that.

Speaker 2: 9:44

What? Yeah, yeah, that's super dangerous Okay.

Speaker 1: 9:48

What you can tell with experience.

Speaker 2: 9:51

I bring these comments Tons of experience, yeah, okay. So the third one, I think is just a very it's a somewhat related to that. It's just over-involving your boss, inviting them to every meeting, including them in every discussion, and while you are keeping them in the loop, ultimately you're devaluing what you bring to the table. Yeah, and I think that is again somewhat of a lazy way to ensure they know what's going on, but it doesn't showcase your part of the equation and so managing up again it does not mean just inviting them to everything.

Speaker 1: 10:25

I think that's a. It's really hard in this context to not go to the solutioning of what you should do in that. But you're right, it's like just involving them or giving context, just give them updates, but we won't go there. But so interesting people misunderstand the idea of managing up and involving them and keeping them in the loop and all those things. All of these tips People need to really think about. Are they applying these in the right ways?

Speaker 2: 10:56

Well, I think you know almost all of these techniques that you are maybe, these things you are doing, these approaches to communicating, they're really one directional right. You're just you're, rather than creating the before, you're just dumping stuff on them. You're sending them emails, you're over-involving them. You're just that you're having this zero value conversation with them and your goal to manage up is to kind of create that equation and define that equation as a leader. What does that look like? And so, if you know, if your equation or you're you're, you're just a conduit to your boss, then that's that's not managing up. That's what you would expect out of a junior employee. That every Monday morning they'll tell you what they did yesterday. They're going to tell you what they did today. That's not leadership. That's not what a C level person does. You know, it's really about ensuring that those folks are engaged at the right level and that the value you bring to the table is shown. And, and those three things certainly aren't doing that.

Speaker 1: 11:53

I love that, that equation of the value you know to the right of the equal sign. What value am I bringing to my boss?

Speaker 2: 12:02

Yep, and I think and that's you know, that's the other side of that topic is what are the? You know the really good ways to do that, but these are three good telltale signs that maybe you're you're trying to manage up, but you're not. So so let me let me recap those. One your conversations are really very low level or very non-work related. You have a conversation you might be friends at work, but you're not. You don't have the relationship that you want. Two, you're, you know, ceasing them on everything, just simply forwarding emails to them, fyis, not creating value during the conversation, completely not. That is not managing up. And the third one certainly is involving them in everything, having them be part of every decision, having them come to every meeting. You know that's not managing up at all. That is just simply over-involving them. So you got to be thoughtful. If you might feel like you're you're managing up, but you're, you may not be.

Speaker 1: 12:52

Oh, so good. I love this one and it's such a pertinent topic and so important actually at every level, but especially at the executive level.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Yeah, we certainly caught up in in trying to respond and react to some of those situations and definitely want to have the right type of relationship and but you know, as with most things, you know it takes time and you have to curate this, that that that work and this type of managing up simply isn't that.

Speaker 1: 13:21

Awesome. I think this is a great way to kind of step back and evaluate am I doing any of these things? And make that adjustment so that you get out of that reactionary mode like you just said.

Speaker 2: 13:32

That's right, that's right.

Speaker 1: 13:33

Awesome. Well, thank you, James. This was helpful to me. I'm going to be really thoughtful about this and give these signs to the people I'm working with. So thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Great topic.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Awesome, all right, well, thank you for joining us, james and I just so appreciate our quicksters. We just love the community so much and if you want to connect with us, we're both on LinkedIn. It's really easy to connect with us, and we'd love to hear what's on your mind, because managing up is definitely one of those topics that people like to hear more about. So tell us what's on your mind in listening to this. Thanks for being here and just remember we appreciate you and and your time that you spend with us. So thanks, thanks, james.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Take care.

Speaker 1: 14:14

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the minds of executives everywhere. Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

Speaker 2: 14:23

You can find us on LinkedIn, youtube or whatever nerdy place on the Internet. You find your podcasts. All the links you really did are in the show notes.