Quick Take | Tips to Help Executives and Leaders Grow
The Quick Take podcast provides concise and actionable tips to help executives and leaders, like you, tackle the thorny and complex challenges that affect us daily. By leveraging their experience and relationship with other global leaders, our hosts provide suggestions that are based on their deep experience as leaders and coaches but also pressure tested in boardrooms everywhere because they asked their friends….(almost). Hosted by James Capps and Susie Tomenchok. Episodes release weekly on Thursdays.
Quick Take | Tips to Help Executives and Leaders Grow
Handling Challenging (or Toxic) Peers
Ever felt stuck dealing with a toxic peer? In this episode we dive into the reality that, as a senior leader, managing difficult colleagues isn't just a nuisance—it's your responsibility. Discover three strategies to turn these challenges into opportunities for growth and team cohesion. Whether you're new in your role or just ready to make a change, we're here to offer our advice on how to navigate and elevate the performance of your entire team.
In this episode, we discuss the following:
1. Why managing challenging peers is part of your role as a leader.
2. Steps to address and improve difficult working relationships.
3. How collaboration and teamwork can strengthen leadership and organizational culture.
CONNECT WITH SUSIE:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susietomenchok/
CONNECT WITH JAMES:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/capps/
Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Suzy Tominchuk.
Speaker 2:And I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.
Speaker 1:Hey Quicksters, welcome to Quick Take. I am one of your hosts, susie, along with my co-host and co-host James.
Speaker 2:That was a lot of co-ing there. Yes, I don't know where you're going with that. I too am here as a host and co-host.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So thank you and welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:You know that is the pain of being an extrovert, when you realize you said something that is a dead end. So just keep going, just keep talking.
Speaker 2:It's fine, just keep talking.
Speaker 1:So I have a client who I've been working with. He has been recently promoted Great guy, good leader Really brings people up along with him. And what he realized and recognized and kind of knew it before he was promoted that his peer isn't as stellar of a leader as he is and causes a lot of anxiety for the people on his team because he's not approachable, he's not very inclusive, he kind of is a boss versus coach, like there's a lot of things. And so my client was like you know, that's my boss's problem and you know, I just I'm a shining light and I said you know, when you get to VP and above it is kind of it becomes your problem. That's the way I look at it. Like as an executive you need to be looking out and seeing what impact you can have a lot to the the side of you and not just assume it's the problem of the person above you. What do you think?
Speaker 2:no, I think that's a really great point and I think, um, you know the title is a tough one here because you know, I know certain, certain companies. There's 500 vps and maybe there's 200 managing directors, whatever. But look, if you're at the seasoned, the senior level of of the organization and you, um, are one of, you know maybe 10 people running the organization yes, you, your responsibilities change and you now have a fiduciary responsibility. You have a, uh, ethical responsibility to affect change across the entire spectrum of the business.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I know I've talked to leaders in that situation and I say look, if there's five of you running the company and one of you is ineffective, and so that means that 20% of your organization is ineffective and you do nothing about it, then that you are culpable.
Speaker 2:You are now just as responsible for that situation as maybe the bad leader. So, certainly, as you grow up in the ranks and you move up in your job, the hierarchy does address some of those issues, but at the end of the day, a lot of our leaders are at the top level of the company. You have a responsibility. You need to take a more assertive action and and I think today we can give you some advice, but it is. You are equally responsible for the situation, as as your bosses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to be looking out. You are responsible not just for the business, but the people that are running the business in that that organization. So that's such a good way of looking at it. I love your percentage. I think people don't think about the impact that they have, and when you boil it down to that kind of optics, it's like you. It's you, you are responsible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you often hear you know that's someone will take care of that. It will get resolved.
Speaker 1:No, you are the someone.
Speaker 2:You are the person who should be resolving that. And so often, when you are new to a role, new person around the table, you have a really fun honeymoon period where you can talk about the sacred cows, you can point out the things effectively, uh, effectively and intelligently and professionally, but you can ask questions. You know, I don't understand why you don't uh communicate with your staff. I'm confused. You don't do skip levels, although we say that that's part of our, our culture. I've just, you know, um, just help me understand, um, and uh, I think that, uh, in that new role, you can take advantage of that to start addressing problems that nobody else perhaps could or would.
Speaker 1:I really like that a lot and I also think you can say to your peers listen, we're at a senior level now how can we support one another? What can I do to help you be a better leader? I'd love feedback and it's kind of setting up this expectation that you are leveling up and leveling each other up so that then, when there is something, you can uncover it and help them, because you're building the relationship. Basically, you're building the trust in that relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the key to being promoted or being at a very senior level is you realize that you're a team and the hierarchy really is less relevant and your boss let's say your boss is the CEO and you're the head of technology, like a lot of my peers are. Well, you are now in a place where you can't do his job and he can't do your job. Right. There's no season. He's not the better technology person or near the more junior, like you've just broken up the the work and it just happens to play out this way. So you have you. You can easily, much more easily, have these conversations because you're all just peers trying to fight the same battle from different chairs, and so you know, um, you know how you address this and I'll jump into. My first tip here is is it's really having that shift into your mindset and saying, look, this is my problem to address and I want to, I want to take action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and shifting that mindset. I think you have such a great opportunity to make a meaningful and thoughtful uh change, because it's, it's we evolve so slowly. But if you, as you move, think about how am I going to look at this differently, how am I going to approach this differently? That's really what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think you know.
Speaker 2:The first piece of advice I like to give is you know, obviously you're new in the role, or maybe you've just decided it's now time to make a change.
Speaker 2:The first place you should go, in my opinion, is you talk to that person's boss your boss, your shared supervisor because you want to have an honest conversation. And my experience has been is that the handful of times I've seen this and by handful I mean at least a dozen, so it's not like one or two it happens a lot that when you do have that conversation with that seasoned person, they know it, they know it's a problem, and why aren't they dealing with it? Because it's not the most current fire on their plate, Right? So, um, so often, when you can come to the table and say hey, hey, am I seeing it right? And, B, how can I help you address this situation, that's leadership. That is bringing something to the table, bringing a solution to the table, not a problem to the table. But it does give you an opportunity to both address the situation in a really productive way but also show your seasoned thinking and your willingness to chip in and work together as a team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it also gives you some insight into your boss and how they approach different things. But how can you help them? It's not just to say, oh they're, they're not dealing with it. There might be some circumstances, Maybe they haven't dealt with it for a really long time, Maybe they haven't been successful, maybe even finding out what they've done in the past and help them see a different angle in.
Speaker 2:There's so many ways that could go down and I think you're just best off trying to validate that situation Um, you know anywhere from. They disagree with you and they're a sacred cow and you're going to have a challenge making that, making any changes, all the way down to gosh. I'm so desperately underwater. If you could take that off my plate or at least be part of the solution, that would be. That would be amazing, and anything in between, right, uh, and so I think that's always. The first step is to, uh, get some cover, get some context and and and manage your relationship with your, with your, your boss, just to get an understanding of what's going on.
Speaker 1:I think that's so right on. So what's the second one?
Speaker 2:You know the second one. I really think it's important that you have that conversation with that individual. I find that when people do really stupid things or from your point of view they're doing something that's really stupid or weird you probably don't know the whole story, and so it could be that you know that you hear on the street they're not doing skip levels, okay, but then you find out after talking to them. They do one-on-ones with their entire staff, you know. So be thoughtful, ask questions and, you know again, use that opportunity as a new person or having a new point of view, just to understand where they're coming from. It doesn't mean you might get a good answer. You may not get a good dialogue. You may get, you know, if this person is just really toxic, you're going to get toxicity back. But I do think that allowing them the opportunity to have that discussion with you is a good way for you to make sure you have the full picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you are going in with you're inspecting this area, that you already have this idea that they're not very strong in, be careful that you also ask other questions, like what are your challenges? What are the things that you're really struggling with? Like do also get information around all of the way they look at the world and build that relationship while you're doing that and then, when you're done, like really inspect that conversation and look at how can I then come up with a strategy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think that's all. The information is just power there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then and then. I think the third one is you need to create alliances and a team approach. I think that you know it takes a village to address problems and I think what you've done now is you've got information. You need to work with peers, you need to work with others. Can you mentor that person as a team? Can you help their staff maybe fulfill? Can you fulfill some of the things they're not getting? Again, if 20% of your organization is suffering, you can and need to step in and do what you can. And I think that if you look at, you know some of the great leaders of the past where you know Steve Jobs did a great job of building collaborative solutions around the challenges that they had.
Speaker 2:the way he brought in Tim Cook that was a huge thing that made a difference and I know that you know you've seen Procter and Gamble do the same thing where um when they brought in different leadership um, ag Lafley was wildly known for the work that he did building uh the strategies across all of the organizations, um, and then and and Brett that's referenced in uh playing to win, uh that they wrote um that Lafley and Martin wrote. But I think just creating those um, those alliances to get people to work together and you know, all boats float to the top. I think it's it's it's the only way you can really address weak links in the chain.
Speaker 1:So, if I'm understanding your point, um, exactly, it's when you go in and talk to that peer, help them understand that you both have different strengths. And how can I support you, how can I use my superpowers to help some of the leadership that he or this or she needs? Like, what can you do as a collective, together so that you can really leverage each other's skills, time, resources, all of those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, look, look, my bread and butter in a lot of this has always just been you know, do the fundamentals. Well, right, and if you just do the basics these are not I'm not talking about you know really crazy things. You don't need to run off and everybody you know, learn French, although I highly recommend it. If you can just do the fundamentals, where you increase transparency, you increase, you can make move mountains. And so if you can sit down with these weaker peers and say, look, we as a collective organization are going to step up our game in this area, how can I help you there? We, our other peers, we are now changing the way that we do, um, skip levels, and we're going to call them hop levels, and, and, and we're going to do this together. How can we?
Speaker 2:all together and when you create that um, that, that, that collective, you create the, the, the group, you know, you create that alliance with your peers to, to engage that in that way and bring that person along. It's a lot less punitive, it's a lot more collaborative, it's a we uh, not a you versus us, and I think, think you know, that type of transparency and you know, again, doing the fundamentals can really really make a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think of a good way of kind of entering in. It goes to that story and the power of story and being able to say you know, this is something that's happened in my past that's worked really well, and then tell them you know, working together and and really locking arms and moving together and illustrating that with a story could be a powerful way to get their buy-in. Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and having others involved in that dialogue. I mean, we're not talking about intervention, but if you and a couple other peers all agree that that's a problem and you guys can all partner with them, that individual, in certain ways it moves miles can all partner with them. That individual, in certain ways it moves miles. You know these are challenging situations and oftentimes these toxic individuals are highly defensive in their position and highly entrenched in their, in their role. And so you know it's it's going to take time, it takes effort and but I think it, you know, even the most toxic situations can be improved with, you know, with these fundamental basic approaches to dealing with difficult people.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. So give us the three tips once more.
Speaker 2:You know I want to recap, but I also want to reiterate probably the most important point, which is you know we all deal and have dealt with toxic people and there are individuals that are the weak links in your organization. But as a senior leader, a very senior leader, you have a responsibility to do something about it. You can no longer say I'm going to take my toys and stay away from that individual. You cannot build a big fence. You are responsible and have a uh a uh. You need to be held accountable for what your peers don't do.
Speaker 2:You as a team will set that culture and and and having a blind eye towards a toxic peer at the most senior levels is not acceptable exactly so first and foremost, I think you need to create a dialogue with your boss, the ceo, the whoever, the leader of the company, to understand the situation and see if there's some backstory and information that you don't have. Second, I think you talk to the individual. You try to create a rapport so you can help influence them, help understand their situation. And then, third, build alliances, create a broader cohort between your other peers to help bring that person up, create systems in which they can be successful, and you can all be successful together, because this is really about doing the fundamentals well and as a team, you're going to be stronger. I think you can really change an individual's perspective and approach if you work as a team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, such great tips, good topic. Thanks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good talk.
Speaker 1:Hey James, I have a question for you.
Speaker 2:I'm nervous what your lock-up song? You mean my hype song. That's funny, because actually there's a song that I, I I think is really funny, but um uh about, because it is like the most classic. It it's just got a great lead into it and it's actually a song by Panic at the Disco and it's called the man and in my head it's kind of like the new version of that opening scene of Saturday Night Fever where John Travolta is walking down the street and he's just strutting his strut. This song is kind of like that, but it's a little more more more the man, only you.
Speaker 1:you would make the man.
Speaker 2:And I and I want 1 million points for pulling that, pulling that out and on the fly.
Speaker 1:I have to give you that that was an unprepared question and response. Yes, my answer was going to be I'd call you Okay and ask you what my song should be.
Speaker 2:What is your song? Yes, that's our next trivia question, james. What is my walk-up song? What is my hype song? Yeah, I'm not going to. I'm going to plead the fifth on that one.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the mind of executives everywhere. Connect with us and share what's on your mind.
Speaker 2:You can find us on LinkedIn, youtube or whatever nerdy place on the internet. You find your podcasts. Our links to the show are in the show notes.
Speaker 1:We appreciate you.
